extra-Biblical revelation

[fla]

If God’s revelation to man is closed since the Bible is complete, what is the purpose of praying?  If God cannot tell us anything apart from what He has already told us in the Bible, how can we ask Him anything through prayer?

[Bro. Allen]

You wouldn't want to talk to your best friend?

God's Word being completed and God answering a prayer is not the same thing.
These are two totally different subjects.

[fla]

You wouldn't want to talk to your best friend?

God's Word being completed and God answering a prayer is not the same thing.
These are two totally different subjects.

How so?  How does God answer a question you ask in prayer if not through dreams, visions or prophecies?

[afterdeathwhat]

Plenty of ways. He answers your prayers when someone gets saved you have been praying for. Open opportunities to witness etc. Plenty of ways without visions etc. God bless.

[fla]

Plenty of ways. He answers your prayers when someone gets saved you have been praying for. Open opportunities to witness etc. Plenty of ways without visions etc. God bless.

But what makes you certain that God no longer uses dreams, visions and prophecies?  And what happens if He still does use these things and you are too obstinate to accept them?  What gives you the authority to limit how God can communicate with His people?

[Bro. Allen]

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

What more do we need? God said His preserved Word is sufficient to man.
That was the task of a prophet ; getting God's Word to us and it's been spoken and recorded and we have it.

Abraham told the rich man ............

Luke 16:29-31
29  Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.
30  And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.
31  And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.

I realize the Luke passage is out of context of what we're talking about but I'm using it as an example ; what other revelation from God could we possibly need that's not already been given?

[fla]

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

What more do we need? God said His preserved Word is sufficient to man.

II Timothy doesn’t say a thing about inspiration being limited to Scripture. And Paul made this declaration before the Bible was either complexly written or canonized- there were dreams, visions and prophecies yet to come.

what other revelation from God could we possibly need that's not already been given?

Nothing for people like you that limit God’s ability to interact with the world.

You are still ignoring the basic words of the text.  Peter said he was living in the last days because he claimed that the visions, dreams and prophecies forecast by Joel for the last days had begun.  Common sense dictates that once the last days have begun they cannot come to an end before the world comes to an end.  Thus if the last days began in the 4th decade of the 1st century and the world has not ended since that time, then the last days must still be ongoing.  And if God promised us dreams, visions and prophecies for the last days we must be willing to accept them.  Like a typical insincere preacher you are making the Bible jump through hoops to say what you need it to say to support your manmade dogma.  You are too afraid to accept the plain words of the Bible.  You don’t want the dreams, visions and prophecies that God promised because you don’t want to give God any opportunity to tell you that you are not meeting His expectations.

[afterdeathwhat]

You don’t want the dreams, visions and prophecies that God promised because you don’t want to give God any opportunity to tell you that you are not meeting His expectations.

The same could be said of you. Bro. Allen is not making the bible jump through hoops to get it to say what he wants in to. As for dreams visions being needed to tell us we are not meeting God's expectations. Again they are not need. The bible tells us all we need to know about hos much we fall short of meeting his expectations. I quote again what Bro. Allen posted

2 Timothy 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

All we need is God's word to to make us perfect. Not extra biblical revelations that you can't even prove if they are from God. Remember the devil is a master deciever

2Cr 11:13 For such [are] false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ.

2Cr 11:14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.

I have had at least one person who claimed that Jesus appeared to him as a being of light. When I asked him how he knew it was God he didn't give much of an answer. God bless.

[fla]

The same could be said of you. Bro. Allen is not making the bible jump through hoops to get it to say what he wants in to. As for dreams visions being needed to tell us we are not meeting God's expectations. Again they are not need. The bible tells us all we need to know about hos much we fall short of meeting his expectations. I quote again what Bro. Allen posted

The Bible is of no use to people that don't accept and won’t believe what it plainly says.  If you reject the Bible, then you are not going to believe anything that the Bible says contrary to what you want to believe.  If the Bible is all-sufficient then we wouldn't have cults like Adventists and Jehovah's Witnesses that read the Bible, but don't believe it.  When People won't believe what the Bible plainly says, God has no choice but to use something other than the Bible to communicate with them.  The Bible plainly says that God will use dreams, visions and prophecies in the last days. These last days are either ongoing or yet to come.  If you believe the Bible you have no choice but believe that these dreams, visions and prophecies from the Lord are either ongoing or yet to come.  If you reject these dreams, visions and prophecies you are essentially telling the Lord to shut up.

[afterdeathwhat]

In all honesty I doubt it.  And with equal honesty I can say that I am past the point of caring.  I took the sinner’s prayer when a traveling preacher passed through the YMCA day camp where my father worked the last summer before my parents were divorced; the prayer didn’t lead to anything that I could call any kind of born again conversion experience.

I guess I'm just a little confused by some of your posts first you join the board and stat off by saying the above quote. Now you are debating the bible. You must know that if you have never been saved in the first place that you cannot understand what the bible says. 1Cr 2:14    But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned. SO I would first challenge you to see if you are in the faith. I am not going to be mean because we disagree on one portion of scripture. But for you to say we are rejecting the bible because we feel it is teaching something other than you believe is arrogant if not just mean spirited. Comparing us to Mormons and Jehovah's witnesses. I as well as Bro. Allen believe the bible from cover to cover. We just feel at least on this passage you are not rightly dividing the word of truth. God bless.

[fla]

I guess I'm just a little confused by some of your posts first you join the board and stat off by saying the above quote. Now you are debating the bible. You must know that if you have never been saved in the first place that you cannot understand what the bible says.

I know enough of the Bible to know that it cannot contradict itself and remain valid in any manner whatsoever.  The Bible says that in the last days God will pour out His Spirit so that His followers will have dreams, visions and prophecies.  I understand that the Bible says that the last days have begun.  I understand that the earth has not come to its end and so I must conclude that the last days are still in progress.  So why shouldn’t I expect God’s People to still have dreams, visions and prophecies?

[Bro. Allen]

You have to first understand the terms "kingdom of heaven" and "last days" as what it meant to the Jews.
I recently had to study this topic in depth and I'm glad I did.
Regardless ;  if a person did not have this information , it's plainly stated by Peter that this event , the day of Pentecost , was what was spoken by the Prophet Joel. Since we know this , it enables us to see clearly what the differences is in the Kingdom of God and the kingdom of heaven and what the unbelieving Jews understood to be the "last days." Even the disciples were confused at one point because they were also expecting a conquering King in the Messiah instead of a humble servant.
Peter now understood the program and was using Jewish terminology to point back to Christ. The Jews understood the "last Days" to be the days of the Messiah and His millennial reign on earth from the throne of David. It was the days of the Messiah but they did not recognize it thus Peter by stating "last days" to the Jews , he was announcing Jesus Christ as the Messiah.

I'll try to lay this down simply :

The tasks of the Old Testament prophets were to give the people God's Word , chiefly to inform them of the Messiah. The Bible says :

Matthew 5:17-18 
17  Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18  For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Christ fulfilled the Law and all the descriptions announced by the prophets.

Luke 16:16  The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.

Since the arrival of Christ , there have been no prophets nor any need for a prophet.

John announced the appearance of their Messiah then the apostles came on the scene and preached the Gospel by showing them that Christ surely was God manifested in the flesh. The Apostles were taught directed by Christ , even Paul , now since those apostles there have been none other. God's Word is complete and all things are finished in Christ. The Old Testament pointed us to Christ , the New Testament points us back to Christ.

Colossians 1:25-28
25  Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God;
26  Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
27  To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
28  Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

Now we are to preach Christ crucified and our only source is the Scripture alone.

Hebrews 1:1-2
1  God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2  Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Jesus directly took the pen from the inspired writers and closed the Book we called the Bible and warned not to add unto or take away because God's revelation to man is complete then once in Glory all the rest will be fully revealed. We have Christ , the central point of the Bible and that is what God wanted revealed unto mankind.

Revelation 22:18-19
18  For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
19  And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Now any of the "signs" some of the charismatic groups embrace , they were not intended for the New Testament church.
We live by faith.
The unbelieving Jews required a sign to show Christ was truly their Messiah.
Any signs now would be a contradiction against Scripture.
Be not deceived , the next one that walks on the scene producing signs and wonders will be the Anti-christ.
Any modern day prophet who has added to God's Word has formed a cult that has damned countless souls to Hell. Any body that says they have a new revelation from God , don't believe them.
Place your trust solely in the Scriptures and them alone.
Christ is come and no other announcement from God needs to be made until we hear that trumpet sound.

I hope this helps?

[fla]

You have to first understand the terms "kingdom of heaven" and "last days" as what it meant to the Jews.

First you have to understand that Joel was addressing his prophecy to Israel because he said that God would be in the midst of Israel i.e., Jews and non-Jews. Joel’s prophecy is about the end of the world, i.e., Christ’s second coming, not His first.

And even if Joel was addressing only the Jews the fact remains that the earth has not come to its end meaning that the last days are ongoing and thus Joel’s prophecy has not yet been fully fulfilled.  You are tying yourself up in knots trying to make the Bible say something because you are too afraid or hard-hearted to believe what the Bible really says.

I recently had to study this topic in depth and I'm glad I did.
Regardless ;  if a person did not have this information , it's plainly stated by Peter that this event , the day of Pentecost , was what was spoken by the Prophet Joel.

I haven’t said otherwise, but since the world is still having its last days (because it hasn’t yet ended) you must accept that Joel’s prophecy has not yet been completed.

I'll try to lay this down simply :

Don’t patronize me.

The tasks of the Old Testament prophets were to give the people God's Word , chiefly to inform them of the Messiah. The Bible says :

Then explain Ezekiel’s prophecy about the reunification of Israel- something that clearly indicates the second coming of Christ rather than the first.  If all OT prophecies were fulfilled by the time the Bible was completely written and canonized, explain when and where the Jews were returned to their ancestral homeland and when and where Magog invaded Israel and when and were the Houses of Judah and Israel were reunited before the 4th century AD when the Bible was completed.

Christ fulfilled the Law and all the descriptions announced by the prophets.

If you think every OT prophecy has been fulfilled you are either ignorant of the Bible, or a fool.  I had thought that you might be a sincere and honest Christian; I guess I was wrong.

Since the arrival of Christ , there have been no prophets nor any need for a prophet.

No prophets since the first coming of Christ?  What about John and the Book of Revelation?  I see now that I have been wasting my time here.

[afterdeathwhat]

Perhaps we have all been wasting our time? God bless.

[Bro. Allen]

Respectfully Bro. Ryan , this is why a debate forum is not a good idea.
Most posters will end up attacking the messenger instead of the message.

I think I made my point in a respectable manner yet Fla wishes to call me a fool when all I did was speak straight from the Bible. Fla has shown a contempt for the Scriptures when clearly presented.

I don't think we wasted our time because others will see the truth and it will help them.